Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!khare From: khare@cco.caltech.edu (Rohit Khare) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 21 Apr 1993 00:19:34 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 140 Message-ID: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:341 caltech.alumni.discuss:293 caltech.house.misc:198 caltech.grads.discuss:164 Announcement ============================================== * APO Petitioning Chapter Forming At Caltech * ============================================== A group of Caltech grads and undergrads are planning to establish a local chapter of Alph Phi Omega, a national service fraternity. Like the Y, it promotes service to the Campus, the Community, the Nation and our Members. However, APO also has an added emphasis on working together with graduate students and other Southern California APO chapters, part of the largest fraternity organization in the USA. For more information, there'll be a packet posted in the lounge We already have some plans for events, beginning with a beach cleanup in Long Beach with chapters from Cal State Long Beach and USC this Saturday. Thanks for your help! For More Information, Contact: ------------------------------ We'd like to hear from interested students as soon as possible (preferably by Friday!) to compile a membership list for possible ASCIT funding. Contact Rohit if you're interested; the others on the list are part of our current working group, who would also love to hear from you. Rohit Khare Adam Rifkin Lloyd 117 356-6846 792-9114 rifkin@cs.caltech.edu khare@caltech.edu DJ Byrne (JPL) Katie Coughlin 354-8889 449-1481 dj@hagaar.jpl.nasa.gov What is APO? ============ Alpha Phi Omega, or APO, is is the National Service Fraternity. Through APO college students gather together in an organization based on fraternalism and founded on the principles of Leadership, Friendship, and Service. The National Fraternity began in 1925 at Lafayette College in Pennsylvania as a collegiate extension of the Boy Scouts of America. Since 1925, more than 240,000 students have joined APO on over 670 campuses around the United States. Universities which currently have active or chartering chapters of APO include MIT, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, RPI, Virginia Tech, Cornell, U Texas -- Austin, and Yale. Locally, chapters exist at USC, UCLA, UCSB, Cal Poly -- Pomona, UCSD, Cal State -- Long Beach, Cal State -- LA, Cal Poly -- San Luis Obispo, UC Irvine, UC Davis, and UC Berkeley. The time is ripe for Caltech to join the ranks of schools which enjoy APO. It was the vision of the founders to make Alpha Phi Omega available to all students on all college campuses, and since currently there are a number of APO alumni in the Pasadena area, we have a sound base to start a student chapter at Caltech. In Alpha Phi Omega, we believe college should be more than the acquisition of facts and figures; it should also broaden your experiences, test your inherent abilities, and sharpen your social skills. Alpha Phi Omega, through its unique program of leadership, friendship, and service, can increase the number of groups at Caltech which offer this necessary but often lacking aspect of college life --- and at the same time enable its members to help others while helping themselves. Past experience has shown that APO fares very well at technical institutes such as MIT, RPI, and Virginia Tech. We have reason to believe that Alpha Phi Omega will succeed at Caltech as well, because it will give students an opportunity to meet students at other schools, and because it gives students a common group which breaks all traditional boundaries in a social context. We invite all interested students to consider joining Alpha Phi Omega as we attempt to charter over the next year and a half. If you have any questions, or are interested in joining us, please contact of the people listed on the cover sheet. Caltech APO : Upcoming Activities (THE IMPORTANT PART!) ================================= This is a preliminary schedule. There are also Sectional and Regional conferences scheduled for later in the year. April 24: Long Beach Cleanup This Saturday morning , some of our members will be joining the Cal State-Long Beach and USC APO chapters to clean up parts of Long Beach as part of Earth Day services. Contact DJ Byrne for transportation plans. May 1: UC-San Diego Chartering UC-San Diego has completed its petitioning and has recently ascended to chapter status. The chartering ceremony is a vital part of APO's traditions. The Ceremony will bet at 3 PM, there will be dinner and a dance later in the evening. May 15: National Forest Trail Maintainance May 29-31: Lake Arrowhead Scouting Project Policies of the Caltech APO petitioning group ============================================= The purpose of this fraternity shall be to assemble Caltech students in a local chapter of the national service fraternity in the fellowship of the principles of the Boy and Girl Scouts of America as embodied in the Scout Oaths and Law (including, but not limited to, the qualities of being Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, Reverent); to develop Leadership, to promote Friendship, and provide Service to humanity; and to further the freedom that is our national, educational, and intellectual heritage. Membership in Alpha Phi Omega shall be open to all Caltech students, after fulfilling the membership requirements prescribed by the National Fraternity. These requirements are not exclusive; they simply require a commitment to the principles of leadership, friendship and service. Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!addam From: addam@cco.caltech.edu (Adam Neil Villani) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 21 Apr 1993 06:14:48 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 46 Message-ID: <1r2oooINNrk5@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ricketts.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:343 caltech.alumni.discuss:294 caltech.house.misc:201 caltech.grads.discuss:165 Well, I apologize in advance, because my response to this APO thing is going to be relatively knee-jerk. I oppose the formation of an APO chapter at Caltech. Fraternities are by their very nature exclusionary. In contrast, every Caltech undergrad is a member of at least one house, unless they willingly decline. In order to be fair, you guys would have to allow admission to any Caltech student who wanted it. Also, I don't like fraternities. How much of your plans for so-called "service" involve the oppurtunity to drink large quantities of beer every night? You could become more active in the Caltech Y if you wanted to do more service. What you really want is to break away from the house system, or in essence, creating an eighth house that is not subject to the regulations, just or unjust of the other seven. Is your vision to have an APO house somewhere off campus and recruit frosh through the first two terms of the year, to have them move out of their hovses and into APO house at the beginning of third term? If this is your objective, or the logical extension of it, why weren't you up front about it? This summer I worked with several MIT students who were members of APO. They were all either boring or assholes. I know this could have just been a coincidence, but it illustrated that a fraternity breeds two things: boring people and assholes. Why? The boring people come because a fraternity teaches you to be sheep and conform. The assholes emerge because a fraternity excludes others and thus generates a feeling of elitism. You even mentioned a mysterious "ceremony". APO is apparently an extension of the BSA. Does APO exclude from membership atheists, as the boy scouts do? (Remember the court case a few years back about the two atheist boys in Cub Scouts). For the record, I am not an atheist (I am a practicing Catholic), and was for several year a member of the Cub Scouts. With all of the crap at Caltech, the one thing we have left is that the under- grads form a real community of trust, openness, HEALTHY competition, and support. The last thing we need is for a fraternity to be set up, apart from the rest of Caltech, creating more division. This is not to say that people shouldn't move off campus if they don't like living on, or the that friends shouldn't live together off campus. It means that the students at Caltech should not form an organization that destroys the undergraduate community. Let the flames begin... Adam Villani Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!phoenix From: phoenix@ugcs.caltech.edu (Mangyn of Chaos) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 21 Apr 1993 06:32:12 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 38 Message-ID: <1r2ppcINNrnf@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bullyrag.ugcs.caltech.edu Summary: Fire Good! Whoosh.... Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:344 caltech.alumni.discuss:295 caltech.house.misc:202 caltech.grads.discuss:166 Let me join Adam: Bleagh. -------------------------------[include]------------------------------ Policies of the Caltech APO petitioning group ============================================= The purpose of this fraternity shall be to assemble Caltech students in a local chapter of the national service fraternity in the fellowship of the principles of the Boy and Girl Scouts of America as embodied in the Scout Oaths and Law (including, but not limited to, the qualities of being Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, Reverent); to develop Leadership, to promote Friendship, and provide Service to humanity; and to further the freedom that is our national, educational, and intellectual heritage. Membership in Alpha Phi Omega shall be open to all Caltech students, after fulfilling the membership requirements prescribed by the National Fraternity. These requirements are not exclusive; they simply require a commitment to the principles of leadership, friendship and service. ----------------------------[end]----------------------------------- "Fraternity"? At Caltech? "Leadership" and "Service" -- isn't the Y for these? Who are you leading, anyway? "Trustworthy" -- Isn't this assumed at Caltech? Else the Honor System is a joke. "Obedient" -- Bleagh, gag, yuck. Obey whom? "Reverent" -- TO WHAT?! Speaking of citizenship, as good net.citizens should followups be directed to one specific newsgroup (pick a group, any group) or does it not take up more disk space to crosspost? This is a non-flame, just an honest question. -- Phoenix@frats.give.me.the.creeps Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!matthew From: matthew@cco.caltech.edu (Matthew John Derer) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Followup-To: caltech.house.lloyd Date: 21 Apr 1993 07:13:11 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 34 Message-ID: <1r2s67INNs37@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> <1r2ppcINNrnf@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mudbalt.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:345 caltech.alumni.discuss:296 caltech.house.misc:205 caltech.grads.discuss:167 phoenix@ugcs.caltech.edu (Mangyn of Chaos) writes: >Speaking of citizenship, as good net.citizens should followups >be directed to one specific newsgroup (pick a group, any group) >or does it not take up more disk space to crosspost? This is >a non-flame, just an honest question. Crossposting should _not_ take up much disk space (remember, I said "should," I don't speak for newsadmins, and I don't know how things are set up). When you crosspost, you send one copy of the article which is tagged to show up on different newsgroups. Plus, newsreaders can mark it read for the reader after she sees it the first time, so she doesn't see it posted on n groups. It's considered polite to set followups on an article that will likely generate lots of discussion to one appropriate group. When or if anything important is decided, it can be sent to relevant groups after all the spammage is done. Being an extraordinarily responsible net.citizen, and being familiar with the local hierarchy, I nominate caltech.house.lloyd. Followups on this article so set. >-- Phoenix@frats.give.me.the.creeps Me, too, but I withhold judgment until APO responds to points already made. -- Needles & Sins, Sins & Needles / he's gasping for air / in the wishing well Dust to rust, ashes on gashes / hand around the killing jar... ---The Killing Jar, S&tB mail me anonymously at anonymus+277@tygra.michigan.com if you want Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!benedett From: benedett@ugcs.caltech.edu (Michael D. Benedetti) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 21 Apr 1993 08:43:21 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 2 Message-ID: <1r31f9INNsrr@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> <1r2ppcINNrnf@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: molest.ugcs.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:346 caltech.alumni.discuss:297 caltech.house.misc:206 caltech.grads.discuss:168 Bartender, a round of valium for my over-excited friends! Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!cluster.gps.caltech.edu!butler From: butler@cluster.gps.caltech.edu (Bryan Butler) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 21 Apr 1993 08:58:42 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 52 Sender: Bryan Butler Message-ID: <1r32c2INNt3c@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> <1r2oooINNrk5@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cluster.gps.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:347 caltech.alumni.discuss:298 caltech.house.misc:207 caltech.grads.discuss:169 well, i'll respond to this flame bait! In article <1r2oooINNrk5@gap.caltech.edu> addam@cco.caltech.edu (Adam Neil Villani) writes: stuff deleted... > >Also, I don't like fraternities. How much of your plans for so-called "service" >involve the oppurtunity to drink large quantities of beer every night? You please don't confuse service fraternities with social fraternities. they are _definitely_ birds of a different feather. in general there are 3 types of fraternities/sororities: 1 - academic, e.g. alpha lambda delta (for freshmen), phi kappa phi, phi beta kappa. 2 - service, e.g. blue key, gold key, and i guess APO (i must confess that i've never heard of APO before). 3 - social, e.g. sigma nu, sigma pi, chi omega... now, i've been a member of all 3 types, and only in the third did any drinking of large quantities of beer occur. i would guess from the description that this will not occur in APO. more stuff deleted... > >This summer I worked with several MIT students who were members of APO. They >were all either boring or assholes. I know this could have just been a >coincidence, but it illustrated that a fraternity breeds two things: boring >people and assholes. Why? The boring people come because a fraternity teaches >you to be sheep and conform. The assholes emerge because a fraternity excludes >others and thus generates a feeling of elitism. You even mentioned a mysterious >"ceremony". first, mysterious "ceremonies" can be pretty benign things. when i joined tau beta pi (an engineering frat), we went through a mysterious "ceremony", but it was pretty cheesy and no big deal. the ceremony for becoming an active member of a social fraternity is usually more involved, but in most cases again no big deal (apart from its significance to the participants). second, i object to the generic classification of fraternity people, in any of the 3 categories, as boring and assholes. try to get to know more of us, and you'll probably come to the conclusion that there are all types in fraternities, just as there are all types in general at any college. i know several grad students who were members of social frats as undergrads and are neither boring nor assholes (names have been left off to protect the innocent :). > >Let the flames begin... > >Adam Villani > -bryan butler butler@cluster.gps.caltech.edu, or butler_b@caltech.edu Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!andyw From: andyw@andy.medesign.caltech.edu (Andy Wells) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 21 Apr 93 10:15:56 Organization: California Institute of Technology Lines: 47 Distribution: caltech Message-ID: References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.215.153.170 In-reply-to: khare@cco.caltech.edu's message of 21 Apr 1993 00:19:34 GMT Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:348 caltech.alumni.discuss:300 caltech.house.misc:215 caltech.grads.discuss:171 In article <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> khare@cco.caltech.edu (Rohit Khare) writes: Policies of the Caltech APO petitioning group ============================================= The purpose of this fraternity shall be to assemble Caltech students in a local chapter of the national service fraternity in the fellowship of the principles of the Boy and Girl Scouts of America as embodied in the Scout Oaths and Law (including, but not limited to, the qualities of being Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, Reverent); to develop Leadership, to promote Friendship, and provide Service to humanity; and to further the freedom that is our national, educational, and intellectual heritage. So does this mean that, like the Boy Scouts, APO also rejects homosexuals? Or atheists? If so, it will (hopefully) never receive recognition as an official Caltech organization and can't receive funding from ASCIT, the GSC, or the Y. The word "fraternity" isn't promising either: it either states that women are not allowed in the organization (whether they are is unclear in the original message) or completely disregards their participation in the organization, making them second-class citizens. The women of the Caltech community do not need any more reminders that they are in a male-dominated environment. Membership in Alpha Phi Omega shall be open to all Caltech students, after fulfilling the membership requirements prescribed by the National Fraternity. These requirements are not exclusive; they simply require a commitment to the principles of leadership, friendship and service. Do these requirements include "reverence" (as mentioned above)? If so, then you're discriminating on the basis of religion. If you want to be of service to the community, get involved with the Y or Open Line. They're already strapped for volunteers as it is. And they also provide many social opportunities for people who work with them. --Andy Wells andyw@design.caltech.edu Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keithc From: keithc@punisher.caltech.edu (Keith Counsell) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 21 Apr 93 18:13:37 Organization: Mad Murray's Midnight Marauding Minions Lines: 22 Distribution: caltech Message-ID: References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> <1r4n64INNktt@gap.caltech.edu> <1r4qb1INNm76@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu In-reply-to: addam@cco.caltech.edu's message of 22 Apr 1993 00:53:53 GMT Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:357 caltech.alumni.discuss:307 caltech.house.misc:231 caltech.grads.discuss:178 Now, I must confess that I've started thinking I may have Republican leanings lately (shudder), but I think that the arguement that APO would be bad because it is a "fraternity" is a bit silly. If their avowed goal is to form an organization open to all, I think we should take their word for it, especially given that they want to be some kind of organization dedicated to doing "good" things. If for some odd reason they did want to exclued women, I expect that they would get beaten about the cranium/genitalia fairly severly. I think you may be putting too much emphasis on the literal meaning of the word and not enough on the intentions behind it. However, I personally have no enthusiasm for APO, or in general service clubs. My experience with them has been that they just sit around and talk about their social responsibility without accomplishing much. A nice idea, but not very practical. Oh, by the way: Spam. -- Keith Counsell | Intoxication isn't the answer to keithc@cco.caltech.edu | everything, but it does give a good azathoth@ugcs.caltech.edu | first order approximation. Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!cavalluz From: cavalluz@cco.caltech.edu (Andrea B. Cavalluzzo) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 21 Apr 1993 20:11:01 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 36 Message-ID: <1r49omINNf04@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> <1r2ppcINNrnf@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:349 caltech.alumni.discuss:301 caltech.house.misc:219 caltech.grads.discuss:172 In article <1r2ppcINNrnf@gap.caltech.edu> phoenix@ugcs.caltech.edu (Mangyn of Chaos) writes: >Let me join Adam: Bleagh. Let _me_ join both Adam and Damien (aka Phoenix) ----------------------[APO stuff deleted, for shortening of article]---------- >"Fraternity"? At Caltech? >"Leadership" and "Service" -- isn't the Y for these? >Who are you leading, anyway? >"Trustworthy" -- Isn't this assumed at Caltech? Else the Honor System >is a joke. >"Obedient" -- Bleagh, gag, yuck. Obey whom? >"Reverent" -- TO WHAT?! > Fraternities should not be needed in a school the size of Caltech. Although we are members of individual houses (if we wish to be), we are all members of a really small, incredibly unique community. We would be, in my opinion losing some of the already-faint ties we have to one another as "The Caltech Community" if some of us became members of a fraternity. Personally, I came to Caltech for many reasons, one of which was the lack of Greek life on campus (Frat life that is, before Elef flames me 8) ) Fraternities have had bad connotations as far as _my_ experiences with them have gone... and it seems like the community doesn't need to lose any more credibility than it already has. If you want to do community service, that is wonderful and admirable. Do it through the Caltech Y. andrea -- "I see the sea of traniquility, rolling on the shores of entropy. And, beyond, the intelligence of the stars..." -"Flight of Apollo", Stanley Kunitz ********************************************************************** Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!cluster.gps.caltech.edu!butler From: butler@cluster.gps.caltech.edu (Bryan Butler) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 21 Apr 1993 22:27:54 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 35 Sender: Bryan Butler Message-ID: <1r4hpaINNim9@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> <1r2ppcINNrnf@gap.caltech.edu> <1r49omINNf04@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cluster.gps.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:352 caltech.alumni.discuss:302 caltech.house.misc:223 caltech.grads.discuss:173 In article <1r49omINNf04@gap.caltech.edu> cavalluz@cco.caltech.edu (Andrea B. Cavalluzzo) writes: >In article <1r2ppcINNrnf@gap.caltech.edu> phoenix@ugcs.caltech.edu (Mangyn of Chaos) writes: >>Let me join Adam: Bleagh. > > >Let _me_ join both Adam and Damien (aka Phoenix) stuff deleted... > >Community" if some of us became members of a fraternity. Personally, I >came to Caltech for many reasons, one of which was the lack of Greek life on >campus (Frat life that is, before Elef flames me 8) ) > > >andrea >-- >"I see the sea of traniquility, rolling on the shores of entropy. >And, beyond, the intelligence of the stars..." > -"Flight of Apollo", Stanley Kunitz >********************************************************************** i've already responded to this once. folks, please don't confuse service fraternities like APO with the normal "greek system" fraternities, which are _social_ fraternities. i have no strong opinion either way about whether to allow APO to form on campus, but if you're going to argue against it, invoking the evils of social fraternities is the wrong way to go about it. -bryan butler@cluster.gps.caltech.edu, or butler_b@caltech.edu "Instead of all of this energy and effort directed at the war to end drugs, how about a little attention to drugs which will end war?" Albert Hofmann Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!khare From: khare@cco.caltech.edu (Rohit Khare) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 00:00:04 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 58 Distribution: caltech Message-ID: <1r4n64INNktt@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:353 caltech.alumni.discuss:303 caltech.house.misc:227 caltech.grads.discuss:174 andyw@andy.medesign.caltech.edu (Andy Wells) writes: >So does this mean that, like the Boy Scouts, APO also rejects >homosexuals? Or atheists? If so, it will (hopefully) never receive >recognition as an official Caltech organization and can't receive >funding from ASCIT, the GSC, or the Y. Sorry to violate my own advice on following up to caltech.house.misc, but this is another egregious mischaracterization that needs to be cleared up. For precisely those exclusionary practices of the BSA, APO dissolved all remaining ties to BSA last December -- APO excludes _nobody_! Again, the following statement is also 100% FALSE: >The word "fraternity" isn't promising either: it either states that >women are not allowed in the organization (whether they are is unclear >in the original message) or completely disregards their participation >in the organization, making them second-class citizens. The women This is completely bogus -- please don't confuse APO with a TV show or Hollywood 'frat': it is a service organization. None of its 670 chapters own a house, haze anyone, or any other such goings-on; in fact, all of that is expressly forbidden in the APO charter. >If you want to be of service to the community, get involved with >the Y or Open Line. They're already strapped for volunteers as it is. >And they also provide many social opportunities for people who >work with them. We intend to work with the Y, but we also have a broader mission than that. As for the social opportunities, APO willnot only be a common ground for the Caltech community (as the Y, Open Line, and several other organizations already are), but also a link to the APO 'community' of over 250,000 people, and more specifically, links to other APO chapters in Southern California. Not to challenge the Y or Open Line, but noteice that their projects reach out to Caltech, Pasadena, basically the community around us -- not particularly to any other colleges in the area, or a lot of national-level projects. Finally, Andrea B. Cavalluzzo writes: > Fraternities should not be needed in a school the size > of Caltech. Although we are members of individual houses > (if we wish to be), we are all members of a really small, > incredibly unique community. APO is not in any way related to the house system: it never has and never will have any residential component to it. As Bryan Butler has so carefully pointed out, there are 3 kinds of greek-letter fraternities Academic -- Phi Beta Kappa, Tau Beta Pi (Honor societies) Service -- APO is one such (Volunteer activities) Social -- The 'Animal House' that too many posters are confusing APO with Again, I'd love to hear what everyone out there has to say about APO, but please don't let the word 'fraternity' keep triggering knee-jerk flamage. Rohit Khare Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!addam From: addam@cco.caltech.edu (Adam Neil Villani) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 00:39:51 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 15 Message-ID: <1r4pgnINNlr6@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r2ppcINNrnf@gap.caltech.edu> <1r49omINNf04@gap.caltech.edu> <1r4hpaINNim9@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:354 caltech.alumni.discuss:304 caltech.house.misc:228 caltech.grads.discuss:175 So, if it would just be another service organization on campus, why does it need to exist? Isn't the Y good enough? What about interaction with other schools? Talk to Anandi, the ASCIT social commando. With a national service organization, much of the service would be in other places (i.e. not caltech or pasadena), and the social interaction with other schools would be limited to to the members of the fraternity. How about, "Service to our members"??? You're self-serving? How much of your service is "Service to your members"??? Caltech does NOT need a splinter faction. Try working within caltech to perform your objectives. If you do, then the whole community will benefit. Adam Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!addam From: addam@cco.caltech.edu (Adam Neil Villani) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 00:53:53 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 14 Distribution: caltech Message-ID: <1r4qb1INNm76@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> <1r4n64INNktt@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:355 caltech.alumni.discuss:305 caltech.house.misc:229 caltech.grads.discuss:176 So, Rohit, why IS it called a 'fraternity', anyway? That means a brotherhood, which means exclusion or 2nd-classing of women. You didn't address this. You addressed hazing, which we had already determined didn't apply to APO (except for a 'ceremony'). And, also, unless every Caltech student joins APO, the APO chapter will NOT , it will be an open ground for the members of the APO fraternity. We have a circular argument here: You must be a member to benefit, but membership is open, so membership means nothing. This is precisely the biggest reason I object to APO: it will create two classes of people at Tech, those who are in APO, and those who are not in APO. be an open ground for anybody at Caltech Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!addam From: addam@cco.caltech.edu (Adam Neil Villani) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 00:56:46 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 6 Distribution: caltech Message-ID: <1r4qgeINNm7c@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r4n64INNktt@gap.caltech.edu> <1r4qb1INNm76@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:356 caltech.alumni.discuss:306 caltech.house.misc:230 caltech.grads.discuss:177 sorry: another correction, I meant that APO will not be open ground for people at caltech, it will be an open ground for members of the APO fraternity. I just don't know how to use the net right yet. Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 04:21:29 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1r56g9INNr58@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> <1r2oooINNrk5@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:359 caltech.alumni.discuss:310 caltech.house.misc:236 caltech.grads.discuss:181 addam@cco.caltech.edu (Adam Neil Villani) writes: >Well, I apologize in advance, because my response to this APO thing is going >to be relatively knee-jerk. [rest deleted] Hmm.. I didn't get the impression that this fraternity would involve any sort of seperate residence. There are many "fraternities" such as this that are more similar to clubs that what you might think of as fraternities at other schools. It sounds like one of those honor society things... keith Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!haagar!dj From: dj@haagar.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (DJ Byrne) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 09:30:10 GMT Organization: Telecom Analysis Group, Jet Propulsion Lab Lines: 50 Message-ID: <1r5oj2INNsc4@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> <1r2oooINNrk5@gap.caltech.edu> <1r56g9INNr58@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: haagar.jpl.nasa.gov Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:360 caltech.alumni.discuss:311 caltech.house.misc:242 caltech.grads.discuss:182 Part 1 of 2 (this is the short part - just one page, go ahead and read it) Wow! Whoever said Caltech students suffered from apathy never read these newsgroups. Fair warning - I'm helping the Tech students who are trying to start the local group, and was in APO at RPI (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY) my whole undergrad career. Some may therefore wish to consider my partiality suspect. The basic idea is this: any college has a lot of people who believe in helping others. The better the school, the more of these you have. Bring them together, and great things happen. Anyone who sincerely wants to contribute is welcome. Have we lost anyone yet? No? Ok. Now, consider a spacecraft for a moment. Everyone agrees that it should have a radio on board. This is useful for navigation, science experiments, and of course, communication. But why does every spacecraft have (at least) two radios? Why do they use several data rates and operate at multiple frequencies? Isn't that redundant? YES IT'S REDUNDANT! IT WORKS BETTER THAT WAY! Can you guess where this is going? Almost every town around here , no matter how small, has a sign post at one of its borders announcing the presence of the Lion's Club, Rotary Club, Elks, Optimists' Club, and usually a few more 'civic service groups.' No one group can meet everyone's needs; you need redundancy, completition, and diversity to meet as many needs as possible. The Caltech Y is a wonderful thing; we hope to add a variety of new projects and opportunities to the good work they already do. Ditto ASCIT, Open Line, etc. As Rohit wrote earlier, we've already been in touch with some of the people in the Y as to what things APO can do in areas the Y passes over. Perhaps one of the most valuable will be teaching that many good things exist outside of Caltech, as well as on campus. For the sake of diversity, APO catagorizes service in four ways: 1) to campus, 2) to community, 3) to the members, 4) to the country. Someone was confused by #3 earlier; it means leadership training, confidence building, etc. through other service opportunities. Leadership, Friendship, and Service are the Cardinal Principles of APO. It's our approach to working on these qualities that makes us unique. If you've read this far, thank you. That's all I have to say. There follows a separate posting which attempts to answer questions/concerns raised in previous descussion on the net. DJ Byrne 354-8889 dj@haagar.jpl.nasa.gov Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!haagar!dj From: dj@haagar.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (DJ Byrne) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 09:45:27 GMT Organization: Telecom Analysis Group, Jet Propulsion Lab Lines: 103 Message-ID: <1r5pfnINNbo@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <1r2oooINNrk5@gap.caltech.edu> <1r56g9INNr58@gap.caltech.edu> <1r5oj2INNsc4@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: haagar.jpl.nasa.gov Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:361 caltech.alumni.discuss:312 caltech.house.misc:243 caltech.grads.discuss:183 This is the second of a two-part posting. Part 1 was an essay on why I think APO would be a good thing at Caltech. Part 2, here, addresses specific concerns raised in previous discussion on the net. * Fraternity - service vs social This has already been covered very well by Bryan Butler (thank you!) and Rohit Khare. To sum up, APO 1) never has a separate house (that's in our by-laws) 2) never hazes (including forced showerings - we mean it) 3) is co-ed (see below), 'though the terminology is archaic 4) believes in service to its members as about 1/4 of its work. This means "making better people of," not "doing homework for." The Caltech Y has leadership seminars for its members - this is the type of thing we're talking about. * Why a fraternity at all? Why not a club? Gee, that's a toughie. Gets back to the idea of filling different needs. In a club, it's all well and good to show up when the mood takes you, or when there's nothing good on TV. APO tries to teach a sense of commitment to service as a way of life. Not just something you do at discreet intervals, but something you're willing to follow up on reliably. And, because service projects become a fun things (gotta be at least as fun as bowling, right?) to do when you know some of your friends are into it too. Why is it useful at a school as small as Caltech? To provide focus. * Women in a fraternity? Yes, we're a co-ed fraternity. Yes, that seems to be a contradiction in terms. APO was founded in 1925 as an all- male follow-on to Boy Scouting. In 1976 we became officially coed; actually, many chapters already had "illegal" female members. I agree that our terminology is out-dated at the national level (fraternity, brothers, brotherhood, fellowship) and apologize to those who are offended by it, but each CHAPTER is free to adopt and use their own wording locally. EVERY student at Caltech is welcome to join, they just have to be serious about it. Alumni, faculty, etc. can participate too if/when the students choose to let them, as advisors. * So who do you exclude? Atheists? Jews? Homosexuals? Asians? Everyone knows fraternities are elitist. Sigh, so suspicious. No one. We exclude no one. We INclude any student with a sincere desire and dedication to be a leader, a friend, and of service. Want proof? Volunteer. We're going to Long Beach to help clean up the beach on Saturday (4/24). Meet at 7:30 am in front of the Red Door Cafe. There's a trail maintenance project on May 15, also. * What does APO do? Typically, a chapter of, say, 40 members runs >= 2 service projects per week, 1 fellowship event, and has a meeting. The projects are the point of it all and can be almost anything - painting at a homeless shelter, re-building trails in a national forest, hosting a holiday party at a low-income day care center, etc. See above for two projects we're doing (not yet as a club) soon. The fellowship event could conceivably be your worst animal house nightmare, but will more likely be milk and cookies and storytelling. It's up to the members, but since state law forbids alcohol to 3/4 of the undergrads, if you're looking for drunken rowdiness, look elsewhere. The meeting? Gosh, you gotta have meetings. NOTE: someone mentioned earlier service groups that sit around talking about social responsibility but doing nothing. To be recognized as an official chapter requires a minimum of 16 service projects over about a year. Minimum. Turns out it's not hard at all. * What's the BSA (Boy Scouts of America) connection? We recognize the great good done by the BSA, and work with them often, as we do with the girl scouts, day care centers, and nursing homes. Originally (1925, remember), only former boy scouts could join APO, new chapters had to have the approval of the local BSA council to form, etc., etc. We were NOT controlled by them, but did look strongly to them as role models and mentors. Recently though, in response to some of their discriminatory national policy decisions towards atheists, homosexuals and others, we DISSOLVED the last of our official ties with them, and have shifted our emphasis to the "world scouting movement." The philosophy of the scout oath and law are still sound, their bureaucracy just doesn't follow it very well. * Service organizations already exist on campus This is touched on above, but was a concern to so many it's worth touching again. ASCIT, the Caltech Y, Open Line, etc. each do their thing - we want to help also. > 600 colleges have had APO chapters since 1925, including other "Tech" schools like MIT, RPI, Stanford and Berkeley. There are a lot of ideas and lessons there Caltech can profit from. How many people here really believe lack of diversity is a benefit? * Splintering effect of starting a new service group Well, several people raised this point, but I have no idea what to do with it. If a group that invites every student on campus to join, that cooperates with other campus groups to carry out projects no one else is doing, that brings together people from across house boundaries and grade levels, raises alarm about splintering then someone needs to explain it to me using very small words. DJ Byrne 354-8889 dj@haagar.jpl.nasa.gov Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!addam From: addam@cco.caltech.edu (Adam Neil Villani) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 10:55:50 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 25 Message-ID: <1r5tjmINN3j4@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r2oooINNrk5@gap.caltech.edu> <1r56g9INNr58@gap.caltech.edu> <1r5oj2INNsc4@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:363 caltech.alumni.discuss:314 caltech.house.misc:245 caltech.grads.discuss:185 You seem to be looking at groups like the Elks as a sort of role model.. Here's my story about the Elks. Back around 1985 or so, a nice old guy who was a friend of our family offered us a membership in the Elks lodge pool for the summer. (This was in Long Beach, CA) We went once a week or so, and we could bring along a friend or two. Well, one time they called over my mom to talk to her about a certain friend my sister had brought. My mom was informed that they had an old rule about not allowing blacks into the pool, and my sister's friend was black. The woman told us that it was okay for now, but just not to bring her back. Needless to say, we didn't bring her back, but that was because we didn't bring OURSELVES back. What was the point of this story? Not that the APO is a bunch of racists, but that whenever you have some sort of service/social organization with "membership", and ceremonies and such, there is a lot of room for abuse. What members see as just maintaining standards may actually be bigotry. It may not even be as overt as this, but nevertheless there is still a feeling of exclusivity. I repeat, I'm not saying APO is racist, just that fraternities are wide open for abuses. Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!mokie From: mokie@cco.caltech.edu (Michael L. Brundage) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 11:25:13 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 73 Message-ID: <1r5vapINN42p@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r23umINNia2@gap.caltech.edu> <1r2oooINNrk5@gap.caltech.edu> <1r56g9INNr58@gap.caltech.edu> <1r5oj2INNsc4@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:364 caltech.alumni.discuss:315 caltech.house.misc:246 caltech.grads.discuss:186 dj@haagar.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (DJ Byrne) writes: >Part 1 of 2 (this is the short part - just one page, go ahead and read it) >Wow! Whoever said Caltech students suffered from apathy never read >these newsgroups. Fair warning - I'm helping the Tech students who >are trying to start the local group, and was in APO at RPI (Rensselaer >Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY) my whole undergrad career. Some may >therefore wish to consider my partiality suspect. >The basic idea is this: any college has a lot of people who believe >in helping others. The better the school, the more of these you have. >Bring them together, and great things happen. Anyone who sincerely >wants to contribute is welcome. [...] >Almost every town around here , no matter how small, has a sign post >at one of its borders announcing the presence of the Lion's Club, >Rotary Club, Elks, Optimists' Club, and usually a few more 'civic >service groups.' No one group can meet everyone's needs; you need >redundancy, completition, and diversity to meet as many needs as >possible. Good points, but a poor analogy, I think. For one thing, Around here, towns aren't small -- at least none I've seen. The smallest towns I've ever lived in still had 2000 people. If APO only allows students to be members, that's about right. Yes, these small towdns had, say, an Elks and a Rotary. However, these were still pretty exclusionary by nature. You joined whichever of the two your friends were in (or people you wanted to be your friends), and joined both if you were seeking public office. I'm not saying this is good or bad, simply that it is. It seems to me that the people who are involved with the Y will be the people involved with APO -- frankly, I don't see any others getting involved, unless somehow "frat" is more appealing than "Y". Now, if the same people who are already doing things with the Y are the people who get involved with APO, then I think that's needless redundancy. Yes, redundancy can be good, but in this case you're just stretching the same service-oriented people out among two different groups. Some will decide they can only be involved with one, and then you've not (at least, in my opinion) accomplished anything useful. >The Caltech Y is a wonderful thing; we hope to add a >variety of new projects and opportunities to the good work they >already do. Ditto ASCIT, Open Line, etc. As Rohit wrote earlier, >we've already been in touch with some of the people in the Y as to >what things APO can do in areas the Y passes over. Perhaps one of >the most valuable will be teaching that many good things exist outside >of Caltech, as well as on campus. This is good, but my question is: Why can't the Y add these "new projects and opportunities" on their own? Lack of interest or lack of resources (funding, student help, or "national" contacts are three that come to mind), I would think. If it's lack of interest, then adding another group doesn't seem likely to help increase interest, although I suppose the added publicity couldn't hurt. In the past, the Y has been able to acquire additional funding by various means, including charging students. APO can only detract from this funding, locally (although certainly, APO might bring in its own national funding). If the Y has a problem getting student help, so will APO. So the only true advantage APO offers, that I can see, is possibly national contacts -- and frankly, I'd have to hear more about that to be convinced of the merits. >DJ Byrne 354-8889 >dj@haagar.jpl.nasa.gov Incidentally, it's not that I'm opposed to APO specifically. I'm wary of frats in general, but that's not it either: Basically, I don't see that APO has much to offer, if you will, but I do see that having APO here could bring negative results. michael -- 142341445069848005092320385250658683902513353866766896959009242032486273790720 mokie@cco.caltech.edu | "This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, | a hope both sure and steadfast, and one which | enters within the veil." Hebrews 6:19 (NASVB) Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!addam From: addam@cco.caltech.edu (Adam Neil Villani) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 11:35:39 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1r5vubINN43p@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r56g9INNr58@gap.caltech.edu> <1r5oj2INNsc4@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> <1r5tjmINN3j4@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:365 caltech.alumni.discuss:316 caltech.house.misc:247 caltech.grads.discuss:187 Well, two service activities a week means that probably the worst that will come from APO is that the members will flame.. :) Well... this will be my last post on the subject. Here's something I read in 'Zhuangzi Speaks' by Zhuangzi, illustrated by Tsai Chih Chung, translated by Brian Bruya: Hui Shi was a man of great rhetorical skill, and he spent his life debating with others. After a hard day's debating, he would prop himself up against a certain tree and rest. One day while resting there, he suddenly realized the principle of not debating. After that he never debated with anyone ever again. Can relying on rhetoric to defeat someone in debate really be considered a victory? If you think so, then you've already been defeated. Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!mokie From: mokie@cco.caltech.edu (Michael L. Brundage) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 11:44:47 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 24 Message-ID: <1r60ffINN48e@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r2oooINNrk5@gap.caltech.edu> <1r56g9INNr58@gap.caltech.edu> <1r5oj2INNsc4@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> <1r5tjmINN3j4@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:366 caltech.alumni.discuss:317 caltech.house.misc:248 caltech.grads.discuss:188 addam@cco.caltech.edu (Adam Neil Villani) writes: [...] >I repeat, I'm not saying APO is racist, just that fraternities are wide open >for abuses. Of course, so are the houses, even by the same arguments. However, APO wouldn't involve residency, just service -- and the Y doesn't seem open to abuses, at least as far as I've seen. This year I went to TJ with them because someone came to me and said, "Hey, wanna go to TJ?" It was that simple. Oh, and I think I remember signing a medical release form of sorts, in case an emergency happened. No hassle, no membership, no nothing. Very casual, very spontaneous -- and if I want to go again, I'm sure they'd let me, but no one's harrassed me about sticking with the project. Again, I grant that redundancy and diversity and focus are all good things, and I believe APO is very effective for what it does. However, I think APO is inappropriate for Caltech. michael -- 142341445069848005092320385250658683902513353866766896959009242032486273790720 mokie@cco.caltech.edu | "This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, | a hope both sure and steadfast, and one which | enters within the veil." Hebrews 6:19 (NASVB) Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!mokie From: mokie@cco.caltech.edu (Michael L. Brundage) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 11:44:56 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 60 Message-ID: <1r60foINN48n@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r2oooINNrk5@gap.caltech.edu> <1r56g9INNr58@gap.caltech.edu> <1r5oj2INNsc4@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> <1r5pfnINNbo@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:367 caltech.alumni.discuss:318 caltech.house.misc:249 caltech.grads.discuss:189 dj@haagar.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (DJ Byrne) writes: >This is the second of a two-part posting. Part 1 was an essay on why >I think APO would be a good thing at Caltech. Part 2, here, addresses >specific concerns raised in previous discussion on the net. [...] > Sigh, so suspicious. No one. We exclude no one. We INclude > any student with a sincere desire and dedication to be a leader, > a friend, and of service. Want proof? Volunteer. We're > going to Long Beach to help clean up the beach on Saturday (4/24). > Meet at 7:30 am in front of the Red Door Cafe. There's a trail > maintenance project on May 15, also. So, you already exist on campus, and now you're just seeking "official" recognition? I suppose that makes sense, although perhaps it's not worth the effort. > * What does APO do? > Typically, a chapter of, say, 40 members runs >= 2 service projects > per week, 1 fellowship event, and has a meeting. The projects > are the point of it all and can be almost anything - painting > at a homeless shelter, re-building trails in a national forest, > hosting a holiday party at a low-income day care center, etc. [...] I think this is all cool, *but* I don't think it can happen. How many of these members would be involved in each project? Even if only a few, it means every student would be doing something every week, plus the meeting. This would of course require deep committment on the students' part (which is good), so deep, that APO would be one of the few things they could be involved in. Take, for example, TACIT (not to harsh on TACIT, though). I have several friends involved with it, but their grades take a beating if they try to do anything else. Of course, for the devoted thespians, this is perfectly great. But then, there's only one acting group here, to my knowledge. I think it's fantastic APO requires such devotion. I personally think things should be done whole- (not half-) heartedly. But I think this requirement will pretty much crush your enrollment, if you will. The Y gets volunteers, but I don't think many volunteer every week (if any) -- but then, I don't have numbers on that, so it's not a fact or anything, just an impression. > * Service organizations already exist on campus > This is touched on above, but was a concern to so many it's > worth touching again. ASCIT, the Caltech Y, Open Line, etc. > each do their thing - we want to help also. > 600 colleges > have had APO chapters since 1925, including other "Tech" schools > like MIT, RPI, Stanford and Berkeley. There are a lot of ideas > and lessons there Caltech can profit from. How many people here > really believe lack of diversity is a benefit? Sure, it's great, but again, Caltech is a small school with a working service organization already. Beyond redundancy and focus, what can APO provide that isn't already available? michael -- 142341445069848005092320385250658683902513353866766896959009242032486273790720 mokie@cco.caltech.edu | "This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, | a hope both sure and steadfast, and one which | enters within the veil." Hebrews 6:19 (NASVB) Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!now.mu.caltech.edu!kantner From: kantner@now.mu.caltech.edu (Michael Kantner) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 15:18:59 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA Lines: 52 Message-ID: <1r6d13INN9u9@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r2oooINNrk5@gap.caltech.edu> <1r56g9INNr58@gap.caltech.edu> <1r5oj2INNsc4@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: now.mu.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:369 caltech.alumni.discuss:320 caltech.house.misc:251 caltech.grads.discuss:191 In article <1r5oj2INNsc4@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> dj@haagar.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (DJ Byrne) writes: >Part 1 of 2 (this is the short part - just one page, go ahead and read it) > >Wow! Whoever said Caltech students suffered from apathy never read >these newsgroups. Fair warning - I'm helping the Tech students who >are trying to start the local group, and was in APO at RPI (Rensselaer >Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY) my whole undergrad career. Some may >therefore wish to consider my partiality suspect. I too went to RPI as an undergrad (graduated in 1992) and was active on campus. I was a member of a Social Fraternity and had many friends in APO, a service fraternity. I was able to see the differences, and of course, have my own biases. >The basic idea is this: any college has a lot of people who believe >in helping others. The better the school, the more of these you have. >Bring them together, and great things happen. Anyone who sincerely >wants to contribute is welcome. Sounds fine to me... Except people won't join APO if they don't like the members, which is the same as a social fraternity. The "openness" is really only a statement. > some text deleted.... > >For the sake of diversity, APO catagorizes service in four ways: >1) to campus, 2) to community, 3) to the members, 4) to the country. >Someone was confused by #3 earlier; it means leadership training, >confidence building, etc. through other service opportunities. For those of you who don't know, social fraternities perform service too, in the above four categories. In some cases, APO, a service fraternity does more, in other cases, social fraternities do more. > >DJ Byrne 354-8889 >dj@haagar.jpl.nasa.gov > In my 4 years at RPI, I learned a little about APO. They are not totally different from a social fraternity (which is not totally different from the undergrad house system). There were initiation rituals just as in a Social Fraternity (I won't comment on hazing). There was a tiered system of membership, in some sense similar to the "pledge" system of a social fraternity. In short, if you oppose greek social fraternities, you should probably also oppose APO, because it is the same type of organization. However, in some areas, it provides more services, and it is less discriminatory. -michael kantner Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!now.mu.caltech.edu!kantner From: kantner@now.mu.caltech.edu (Michael Kantner) Newsgroups: caltech.announce,caltech.alumni.discuss,caltech.house.misc,caltech.grads.discuss Subject: Re: APO Petitioning Chapter forming at Caltech Date: 22 Apr 1993 15:27:05 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA Lines: 50 Message-ID: <1r6dg9INNa51@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1r56g9INNr58@gap.caltech.edu> <1r5oj2INNsc4@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> <1r5pfnINNbo@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: now.mu.caltech.edu Xref: nntp-server.caltech.edu caltech.announce:370 caltech.alumni.discuss:321 caltech.house.misc:252 caltech.grads.discuss:192 In article <1r5pfnINNbo@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> dj@haagar.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (DJ Byrne) writes: > >This is the second of a two-part posting. Part 1 was an essay on why >I think APO would be a good thing at Caltech. Part 2, here, addresses >specific concerns raised in previous discussion on the net. > > * Fraternity - service vs social > This has already been covered very well by Bryan Butler (thank > you!) and Rohit Khare. To sum up, APO > 1) never has a separate house (that's in our by-laws) This does NOT keep members from renting a house and living together or sharing an apartment. > 2) never hazes (including forced showerings - we mean it) Of course, no fraternity EVER hazes, and no fraternity member will EVER admit hazing. Let's be realistic here. APO had just as many rumors floating around at RPI as the social fraternitites. > * So who do you exclude? Atheists? Jews? Homosexuals? Asians? > Everyone knows fraternities are elitist. > Sigh, so suspicious. No one. We exclude no one. We INclude > any student with a sincere desire and dedication to be a leader, > a friend, and of service. Want proof? Volunteer. We're > going to Long Beach to help clean up the beach on Saturday (4/24). > Meet at 7:30 am in front of the Red Door Cafe. There's a trail > maintenance project on May 15, also. However, if they don't like you, you probably won't have fun, and probably won't want to join. APO can do the same things as any social fraternity, if tghey desire. > * Service organizations already exist on campus > This is touched on above, but was a concern to so many it's > worth touching again. ASCIT, the Caltech Y, Open Line, etc. > each do their thing - we want to help also. > 600 colleges > have had APO chapters since 1925, including other "Tech" schools > like MIT, RPI, Stanford and Berkeley. There are a lot of ideas > and lessons there Caltech can profit from. How many people here > really believe lack of diversity is a benefit? Well, some people lack of a greek system, i.e. lack of diversity, is a benefit. As a note, I am NOT opposed to APO being at Caltech. I just think a counter to the propaganda (with my own, of course) is needed. As I mentioned before, I was in a social fraternity and I support the system. However, some of the comments presented here are short sighted and heavily biased. Mine are probably the same. -Michael Kantner kantner@hot.caltech.edu